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73612026 Q1GrowthJGAAP

Human Creation Holdings (7361) FY2026 Q1 Earnings Report

For FY2026 Q1, revenue came to ¥2.2B (+11.6% year on year) and operating income ¥134.0M (-36.9%). The segment drivers and cash flow follow.

IT & Services, Others/Services


Quick View

MetricCurrentPriorYoY
Revenue¥22.5B¥20.1B+11.6%
Operating Income¥1.3B¥2.1B−36.9%
Ordinary Income¥1.2B¥2.1B−41.5%
Net Income¥0.5B¥1.3B−60.2%
ROE3.5%8.6%-

Executive Summary

FY2026 Q1 results show a revenue/profit divergence pattern: Revenue reached 22.5B yen (YoY +11.6%), while Operating Income declined to 1.3B yen (-36.9%), Ordinary Income to 1.2B yen (-41.5%), and Net Income to 0.5B yen (-60.2%). The quarter demonstrated strong top-line growth in the System Solution Services segment, but profitability deteriorated significantly due to elevated SG&A expenses and an exceptionally high effective tax rate of 57.7%. Operating margin compressed to 6.0% from 10.4% YoY, and net profit margin fell to 2.3% from 6.6% YoY. Cash and deposits declined 32.4% YoY to 9.6B yen, raising short-term liquidity concerns despite adequate current ratio of 139.5%. The results reflect expansion-phase cost pressures against a backdrop of sustained revenue momentum.

Performance Drivers

Revenue growth of 11.6% was driven by the core System Solution Services business, which constitutes the company's single reportable segment. The top-line expansion aligns with management's full-year guidance of 11.8% revenue growth, suggesting consistent demand for IT services and system integration offerings. Gross profit increased to 6.4B yen with a gross margin of 28.3%, indicating that direct costs grew proportionally with revenue without significant margin expansion.

The primary driver of profit decline was SG&A expense escalation to 5.0B yen, representing substantial growth from approximately 3.8B yen in the prior year period. This increase outpaced revenue growth and compressed operating profit by 36.9% to 1.3B yen. The SG&A burden likely reflects investments in personnel, sales infrastructure, or administrative capacity to support business expansion, though specific cost components were not disclosed.

Non-operating items contributed minimal impact, with the gap between Operating Income (1.3B yen) and Ordinary Income (1.2B yen) representing approximately 0.1B yen in net non-operating expenses. The more significant deterioration occurred in the tax line, where an effective tax rate of 57.7% reduced net income to 0.5B yen from pre-tax profit of 1.2B yen. This elevated tax burden, substantially above the standard Japanese corporate tax rate, suggests either deferred tax adjustments, non-deductible expenses related to intangible assets, or other tax accounting factors requiring monitoring.

This quarter demonstrates a revenue up/profit down pattern, characterized by successful market expansion offset by operating leverage deterioration and tax headwinds.

Segment Analysis

The company operates System Solution Services as its single reportable segment, with other businesses deemed immaterial. Revenue for this core segment reached 22.5B yen (YoY +11.6%) with Operating Income of 1.3B yen (-36.9%). As the dominant business representing essentially 100% of operations, the segment's performance mirrors consolidated results. The operating margin of 6.0% for this core business reflects the cost structure challenges affecting overall profitability, with SG&A expenses consuming most of the gross profit margin. The single-segment structure provides operational focus but also creates concentration risk, as company performance depends entirely on the System Solution Services market dynamics.

Key Metrics

[Profitability] ROE of 3.5% declined from approximately 8.6% in the prior year period, driven primarily by net profit margin compression to 2.3% from 6.6% YoY. Operating margin deteriorated to 6.0% from 10.4% YoY, reflecting a 4.4 percentage point margin contraction. The DuPont three-factor decomposition shows net profit margin of 2.3%, total asset turnover of 0.554 times, and financial leverage of 2.69 times. The profitability decline stems primarily from the net margin deterioration caused by elevated SG&A expenses and the 57.7% effective tax rate. [Cash Quality] Cash and deposits totaled 9.6B yen, down 4.1B yen or 32.4% YoY from 14.2B yen, indicating significant cash consumption during the quarter. Short-term debt coverage stands at approximately 0.64 times based on cash versus short-term liabilities of 15.0B yen, marking a reduction in cash buffer. Accounts receivable increased while collection appears extended based on DSO analysis. [Investment Efficiency] Asset turnover of 0.554 times (annualized basis) compares to financial leverage of 2.69 times. The balance sheet carries significant intangible assets of 12.9B yen and goodwill of 12.4B yen, together representing 62.4% of total assets and creating efficiency considerations for asset-light metrics. [Financial Health] Equity ratio stands at 37.2% versus 34.1% in the prior year, with total equity of 15.1B yen against total assets of 40.5B yen. Current ratio of 139.5% and quick ratio of 139.0% indicate adequate short-term solvency, though the cash decline warrants monitoring. Debt-to-equity ratio of 1.69 times reflects moderate leverage, with long-term borrowings of 7.3B yen comprising the primary interest-bearing debt.

Cash Flow Analysis

Cash and deposits decreased 4.1B yen YoY to 9.6B yen, representing a 32.4% decline that signals substantial cash consumption during the quarter. The cash deterioration occurred despite operating profit generation of 1.3B yen, suggesting working capital absorption or other cash outflows exceeded operating earnings. Accounts receivable and contract assets likely increased in line with revenue growth, potentially extending collection cycles and delaying cash conversion. Inventories rose modestly by 0.02B yen to 0.07B yen, with work-in-process composition suggesting ongoing project investments. Accounts payable increased 0.27B yen to 1.34B yen, providing some supplier credit offset but insufficient to counter the overall cash decline. The working capital position of 5.9B yen reflects current assets net of current liabilities, though the composition shifted less favorably toward receivables. With short-term liabilities at 15.0B yen, the cash coverage ratio of 0.64 times indicates tightening near-term liquidity compared to more comfortable prior year levels. The cash consumption pattern combined with elevated accounts receivable and limited cash generation relative to reported profits suggests earnings quality considerations and the need for improved working capital management.

Earnings Quality

Ordinary income of 1.2B yen versus operating income of 1.3B yen reflects a modest 0.1B yen net non-operating expense, representing minimal impact from financial activities or non-core items. The non-operating net contribution of approximately negative 0.1B yen comprises primarily interest expenses on the 7.3B yen long-term borrowings, with no material extraordinary gains or losses disclosed. Non-operating income represents less than 1% of revenue, indicating core business operations drive nearly all earnings. The more significant earnings quality consideration emerges in the tax-to-net-income conversion, where the 57.7% effective tax rate reduced pre-tax profit of 1.2B yen to net income of 0.5B yen. This tax burden substantially exceeds the Japanese statutory rate and may reflect non-deductible items related to the substantial goodwill base of 12.4B yen or deferred tax adjustments. The goodwill-to-equity ratio of 82.3% creates potential future earnings volatility through impairment risk. While operating cash flow data was not disclosed for the quarter, the 32.4% decline in cash deposits against reported net income of 0.5B yen suggests cash earnings conversion remains challenged, with working capital absorption likely exceeding accrual-basis profits. The extended accounts receivable collection pattern further indicates that reported revenues have not yet converted to cash, raising questions about earnings realization quality.

Guidance Update

Full-year guidance projects Revenue of 100.1B yen, Operating Income of 7.9B yen, Ordinary Income of 7.8B yen, and Net Income of 4.4B yen, representing YoY growth rates of 11.8%, 0.5%, 0.7%, and growth from prior year base respectively. Q1 progress rates stand at 22.5% for revenue, 17.1% for operating income, 15.9% for ordinary income, and 11.8% for net income against full-year targets. Standard quarterly phasing would suggest approximately 25% completion at Q1, indicating that revenue tracking is slightly below pace at 22.5%, while profit metrics show more pronounced shortfalls with operating income at 17.1% and net income at only 11.8% of full-year targets. The 7-8 percentage point profit progress deficit versus standard phasing implies that management expects substantial profit margin recovery in the remaining nine months. This recovery scenario would require SG&A expense growth moderation and normalization of the tax rate from Q1's elevated 57.7% level. The YoY change assumptions embedded in guidance show revenue growing 11.8% with operating income essentially flat at +0.5%, suggesting that management anticipates cost absorption pressures to persist through the full year while maintaining modest operating leverage improvement from Q1's depressed 6.0% margin. Achievement of full-year targets depends critically on H2 profit margin expansion materially exceeding Q1 performance.

Shareholder Returns

The company plans a year-end dividend of 27.00 yen per share, with full-year guidance indicating total annual dividend of 44.00 yen per share. No interim dividend is scheduled for Q1. Based on Q1 net income of 0.5B yen (52 million yen) annualized against the planned 44 yen per share annual dividend and an estimated 3.09 million shares outstanding (derived from balance sheet equity data), the calculated payout ratio reaches approximately 185.5%. This elevated payout ratio substantially exceeds sustainable levels and reflects the quarterly profit decline rather than annual expectations. Against the full-year net income guidance of 4.4B yen and 44 yen per share dividend, the intended payout ratio normalizes to approximately 30.9%, which falls within conventional sustainability ranges if full-year earnings materialize. However, Q1's weak profit performance and 32.4% cash decline create near-term questions about dividend coverage. The cash position of 9.6B yen provides some buffer for dividend payments, but the combination of declining cash, elevated working capital, and below-target profit progress suggests that dividend sustainability depends on successful execution of management's back-half profit recovery plan. No share buyback activities were disclosed for the quarter.

Risk Factors

Single-segment concentration risk represents the primary business exposure, with System Solution Services comprising essentially 100% of revenue. This structure eliminates portfolio diversification benefits and creates full dependence on IT services market conditions, client project pipelines, and technology sector demand. Any downturn in corporate IT spending or loss of major client relationships would directly impact consolidated performance without offsetting revenue streams.

Goodwill and intangible asset impairment risk poses significant balance sheet exposure, with goodwill of 12.4B yen representing 82.3% of total equity of 15.1B yen. The substantial intangible assets of 12.9B yen bring total intangible exposure to 25.3B yen or 62.4% of the 40.5B yen asset base. This concentration creates earnings volatility risk if business performance deteriorates and triggers impairment testing failures, potentially requiring write-downs that would materially reduce equity and profitability.

Working capital and liquidity deterioration presents near-term financial risk, evidenced by the 32.4% cash decline to 9.6B yen and extended accounts receivable collection patterns. With short-term liabilities of 15.0B yen against current cash of 9.6B yen, the company maintains only 0.64 times cash coverage of near-term obligations. Combined with high dividend commitments and uncertain profit recovery timing, this liquidity tightening could constrain financial flexibility and require either profit improvement, working capital release, or external financing to maintain operations and shareholder returns.

Industry Benchmark (Reference - Proprietary Data)

[Industry Position] (Reference - Proprietary Analysis)

Profitability: Operating margin of 6.0% positions below the IT and Telecommunications industry median of 5.3% (Q1 2025, n=3), though within the interquartile range of 3.0%-26.3%. Net profit margin of 2.3% substantially exceeds the industry median of 0.6% (IQR: 0.5%-16.6%), indicating relatively stronger bottom-line conversion despite operating margin compression. ROE of 3.5% considerably outperforms the industry median of 0.2% (IQR: 0.1%-2.3%), reflecting better equity utilization even with the current quarter's profit decline.

Efficiency: Asset turnover of 0.554 times significantly exceeds the industry median of 0.18 times (IQR: 0.15-0.19), demonstrating superior asset productivity. This efficiency advantage partially offsets the moderate financial leverage of 2.69 times versus industry median of 1.45 times (IQR: 1.28-1.49), as the company employs higher leverage to enhance returns.

Financial Health: Equity ratio of 37.2% substantially trails the industry median of 68.9% (IQR: 64.1%-79.9%), indicating a more leveraged capital structure relative to peers. This positioning reflects the company's debt-financed growth strategy and goodwill-heavy balance sheet composition.

Growth: Revenue growth of 11.6% YoY underperforms the industry median of 25.5% (IQR: 20.9%-26.2%), suggesting slower expansion relative to sector peers experiencing stronger demand momentum. The company's Rule of 40 metric (revenue growth plus operating margin) of approximately 17.6% falls below the industry median of 0.31 or 31% (IQR: 0.29-0.47), indicating room for improvement in balancing growth and profitability.

(Industry: IT and Telecommunications, Comparison: 2025 Q1 data, n=3 companies, Source: Proprietary analysis)

Key Takeaways from Earnings

Revenue momentum of 11.6% YoY growth demonstrates sustained market demand for System Solution Services, validating the company's service positioning and client expansion. The top-line trajectory aligns with management's full-year 11.8% growth guidance, indicating consistent business development execution. However, this growth rate trails the industry median of 25.5%, suggesting competitive intensity or market share considerations that merit monitoring for maintained positioning.

Profitability deterioration presents the critical earnings characteristic, with operating margin compressing to 6.0% from 10.4% YoY due to SG&A expense escalation. The 36.9% operating income decline against 11.6% revenue growth reveals significant negative operating leverage, likely reflecting expansion-phase investments in capacity, personnel, or infrastructure. The 57.7% effective tax rate further amplified net income decline to -60.2%, creating a substantial profit recovery requirement to achieve full-year guidance. Management's guidance implies back-half margin expansion to offset Q1 weakness, making cost management execution and tax normalization key factors for full-year outcome.

Liquidity tightening and working capital deterioration emerge as near-term financial considerations requiring attention. The 32.4% cash decline to 9.6B yen combined with accounts receivable extension patterns indicates that revenue growth has absorbed cash rather than generated it. With cash covering only 0.64 times short-term liabilities and a 185.5% quarterly payout ratio, the company faces pressure to improve cash conversion, moderate dividend distributions if profit recovery delays, or access financing. The substantial goodwill base of 82.3% of equity creates additional balance sheet risk that warrants monitoring through impairment testing outcomes.


This report was automatically generated by AI analyzing XBRL earnings data as an earnings analysis tool. This is not a recommendation to invest in any specific security. Industry benchmarks are reference information compiled from publicly available earnings data. Please make investment decisions at your own responsibility and consult professionals as needed.


AI Financial Analysis

Executive Summary

FY2026 Q1 was a weak earnings start despite continued double-digit revenue growth. Revenue increased 11.6% year on year to JPY2.246bn, indicating that demand for the group's system solution services remained positive. However, operating income fell 36.9% to JPY134m. Ordinary income declined 41.5% to JPY124m, while net income fell 60.2% to JPY52m. The operating margin compressed to 6.0% from 10.5% in the prior-year quarter, a deterioration of approximately 456 basis points. Gross margin declined to 28.3% from approximately 29.4%, or roughly 115 basis points, showing that the earnings pressure was not solely attributable to overhead. SG&A expenses rose 31.9% to JPY501m, substantially faster than revenue growth, increasing the SG&A-to-sales ratio to 22.3% from 18.9%. Consequently, the principal earnings issue was negative operating leverage rather than insufficient sales growth. The net margin was only 2.3%, down from approximately 6.6% a year earlier. A 57.7% effective tax rate further reduced the conversion of pre-tax profit into net income, with the tax burden factor at 0.418. Annualized ROE remained 13.8%, supported by 2.69x financial leverage rather than by a strong net margin. The balance sheet retains adequate near-term liquidity, with current and quick ratios of 1.40x and 1.39x, respectively. Nevertheless, goodwill represents 82.3% of equity and 30.6% of total assets, making shareholder value materially dependent on the continued performance of acquired businesses. Intangible assets account for 31.9% of total assets, reinforcing the importance of maintaining acquisition-related asset values. Management's full-year forecast calls for revenue growth of 11.8% and operating-income growth of 0.5%, implying a substantial earnings recovery after the first quarter. Q1 revenue progress was 22.4% of the full-year plan, broadly near the normal 25% quarterly run rate, but operating-income progress was lower at 17.1%. Net-income progress was 11.9% of the full-year target, reflecting both the weaker operating result and the elevated tax burden. The key issue for subsequent quarters is whether revenue growth can translate into restored gross-margin and SG&A efficiency sufficient to support the full-year operating-profit target.

Profitability Analysis

Annualized DuPont ROE is 13.8%, comprising a 2.3% net profit margin, 2.217x asset turnover, and 2.69x financial leverage. The weakest component is the net margin: Q1 net income declined much faster than revenue, reducing annualized profitability despite solid turnover. Operating margin fell to 6.0% from 10.5% in the prior-year quarter, while gross margin fell by about 115 basis points to 28.3%. SG&A increased 31.9%, versus 11.6% revenue growth, and the SG&A ratio rose approximately 343 basis points to 22.3%; this was the largest identifiable driver of operating-margin compression. This cost pattern indicates negative operating leverage in Q1, as incremental sales did not absorb selling, administrative, and personnel-related costs effectively. The annualized asset turnover of 2.217x is relatively robust for an IT services business and partly offsets the low margin. Financial leverage of 2.69x is the other material support to ROE, meaning the 13.8% annualized ROE should not be interpreted as purely operating strength. The five-factor analysis shows an interest burden of 0.927, and interest coverage of 37.06x, so interest costs are not presently the main cause of the profit decline. By contrast, the tax burden of 0.418 is weak, corresponding to a 57.7% effective tax rate and materially reducing net-income conversion. As a JGAAP reporter with JPY1.239bn of goodwill, operating profit and net income may include goodwill-amortization effects; however, the amount of goodwill amortization is not disclosed in the supplied figures. The sustainability of the margin recovery therefore depends on improved gross-profit conversion and a moderation in SG&A growth relative to revenue.

Growth Assessment

Revenue growth of 11.6% in Q1 is consistent with management's full-year revenue-growth forecast of 11.8%, suggesting that top-line momentum is currently aligned with the annual plan. The group operates principally in one reportable segment, System Solution Services, making consolidated growth dependent on execution within this core business. Q1 gross profit rose 7.2% to JPY635m, slower than revenue growth, indicating weaker gross-profit conversion. Operating income declined despite higher sales because SG&A growth substantially exceeded revenue growth. The full-year plan of JPY10.005bn in revenue implies Q1 progress of 22.4%, only modestly below the standard 25% first-quarter pace. Operating-income progress was 17.1% against the JPY785m full-year forecast, 7.9 percentage points below the standard pace but not more than the 10-percentage-point deviation threshold. Net income of JPY52m represents 11.9% of the JPY436m full-year forecast, 13.1 percentage points below a standard 25% pace. To meet the full-year operating-income plan, the company needs an operating margin of roughly 8.4% on the remaining forecast revenue, compared with 6.0% in Q1 and 7.8% implied by the full-year forecast. This makes the expected improvement in cost absorption and profitability the principal earnings execution requirement. The work-in-process balance is small at JPY3m, but it represents the entirety of reported inventory composition and should be monitored for project delivery timing and cost recognition.

Financial Health

Liquidity is adequate: current assets of JPY2.097bn exceed current liabilities of JPY1.503bn, producing working capital of JPY594m and a current ratio of 1.40x. The quick ratio is also 1.39x, showing that liquidity is primarily supported by cash and receivables rather than inventory. Cash and deposits were JPY957m, equal to 23.6% of total assets, while trade receivables were JPY855m, or 21.1% of assets. Total liabilities were JPY2.547bn, equivalent to 62.9% of total assets, and total equity was JPY1.505bn. Interest-bearing debt was JPY727m, with debt-to-equity of 1.69x; this is elevated relative to a conservative capital structure but remains below the 2.0x aggressive-financing warning threshold. Debt-to-capital was 32.6%, below the 40% investment-grade benchmark. Current liabilities include JPY266m of the current portion of long-term loans, which is covered by cash and current assets, limiting immediate maturity-mismatch risk. Interest coverage of 37.06x indicates substantial capacity to service current interest costs. Cash and deposits fell JPY460m year on year, or 32.4%, to JPY957m; this reduces the liquidity buffer even though the reported liquidity ratios remain above 1.0x. Trade payables increased JPY27m, or 25.3%, to JPY134m, providing some supplier-financing support but warranting monitoring alongside operating activity. Goodwill of JPY1.239bn equals 82.3% of equity, well above the 50% warning threshold. This reflects a balance sheet materially exposed to acquisition-value retention: any impairment would directly erode equity and could increase leverage. Intangible assets represent 31.9% of total assets, also above the 30% concentration warning level, increasing sensitivity to the economic performance of acquired customer relationships, technology, and related assets. Net defined-benefit liability of JPY176m and asset-retirement obligations of JPY96m are additional long-dated balance-sheet obligations.

Notable B/S Changes

Cash and deposits: -JPY460m (-32.4%) to JPY957m - liquidity remains adequate, but the reduced cash buffer lowers financial flexibility. Accounts payable: +JPY27m (+25.3%) to JPY134m - increased supplier obligations provide limited working-capital support and should be monitored against project activity. Goodwill: -JPY45m (-3.5%) to JPY1.239bn - the modest decline is consistent with amortization, but goodwill remains very high at 82.3% of equity and leaves the balance sheet sensitive to impairment.

Cash Flow Quality

Dividend Sustainability

Management forecasts FY2026 dividend per share of JPY44.00 and basic EPS of JPY141.08. This implies a forecast dividend payout ratio of approximately 31.2%, which is below the 60% sustainability benchmark. The projected dividend is therefore moderate relative to forecast earnings. The Q1 basic EPS of JPY16.99 represents 12.0% of forecast full-year EPS, consistent with the weak first-quarter net-income progress. Dividend sustainability will depend primarily on achieving the forecast recovery in earnings and preserving balance-sheet capacity given the group's elevated goodwill exposure and 1.69x debt-to-equity ratio.

Risk Assessment

Business risks include Margin-execution risk: revenue grew 11.6%, but operating income fell 36.9% as gross margin declined and SG&A rose 31.9%. Failure to restore operating leverage would challenge the full-year profit plan., IT services project-delivery risk: work in process comprises the reported inventory balance, indicating that project completion, acceptance timing, and project-cost control can affect quarterly revenue and margin recognition., Customer demand and competitive-pricing risk: the 115-basis-point gross-margin decline suggests that pricing, staffing mix, subcontracting costs, or project mix may be less favorable than in the prior-year quarter., Acquisition integration and impairment risk: goodwill is JPY1.239bn, equal to 82.3% of equity. Under JGAAP, acquired goodwill is amortized and remains subject to impairment if acquired operations underperform..

Financial risks include High tax burden: the effective tax rate was 57.7%, producing a tax-burden factor of 0.418. This materially reduced Q1 net-income conversion and raises the earnings sensitivity of the full-year EPS target to tax normalization., Intangible-asset concentration: intangible assets are 31.9% of total assets. This concentration increases the potential equity impact from adverse valuation reassessments or weaker post-acquisition cash generation., Liquidity-buffer risk: cash declined 32.4% year on year to JPY957m. Current liquidity remains adequate at 1.40x, but a continued cash reduction would narrow financial flexibility., Leverage dependence: annualized ROE of 13.8% is supported by 2.69x financial leverage, while debt-to-equity is 1.69x. Returns are therefore more sensitive to any decline in operating earnings or asset values..

Key concerns include Highest priority: recovery of the operating margin from 6.0% in Q1 toward the 7.8% level implied by the full-year operating-income forecast., High priority: preservation of acquired-business performance supporting JPY1.239bn of goodwill and the associated equity base., High priority: whether the Q1 effective tax rate of 57.7% moderates, as the current rate materially depresses net-income progress., Moderate priority: work-in-process concentration within inventory. Its absolute amount is immaterial at JPY3m, but it remains a useful indicator of project execution and revenue-recognition timing..

Investment Implications

Key takeaways include Top-line performance was constructive, with Q1 revenue up 11.6% year on year and broadly tracking the full-year revenue-growth plan., Profitability deteriorated sharply: operating margin fell approximately 456 basis points to 6.0%, driven by lower gross margin and SG&A growth that exceeded sales growth., The annualized 13.8% ROE is acceptable on a headline basis, but it is supported by 2.69x financial leverage rather than a strong 2.3% net margin., Balance-sheet liquidity is adequate, but goodwill equal to 82.3% of equity makes acquisition performance and impairment avoidance central to value preservation., The FY2026 forecast requires a meaningful post-Q1 earnings recovery, particularly in net income, whose first-quarter progress was only 11.9% of the annual target..

Metrics to watch include Operating margin and SG&A-to-sales ratio versus the Q1 levels of 6.0% and 22.3%, Gross margin versus the Q1 level of 28.3%, Progress toward the FY2026 operating-income forecast of JPY785m, Effective tax rate and tax-burden factor, Cash and deposits following the year-on-year decline to JPY957m, Goodwill and intangible-asset balances, together with any impairment or acquisition-related disclosures, Interest-bearing debt and debt-to-equity ratio.

Regarding relative positioning, The company combines healthy sales growth and adequate short-term liquidity with below-good operating-margin quality in Q1. Its annualized ROE falls within a broadly good range, but relative positioning is constrained by sharp profit compression, an elevated tax burden, leverage-supported returns, and unusually high goodwill and intangible-asset exposure for the equity base.